As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. A shame but then no one was hurt. But breaking news here, skippy. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. . His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. 2. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Its a novelty, its got issues! In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Yaaay! So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. The Hide Armory. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. Asking for a friend. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. 3. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. These officers are not gunfighters. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . But now, P320 is the subject. Excellent work. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 But Shatner? As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. It was expensive. (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. who sells them? The Glock fails on both counts. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Nope. D. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Ron, NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. Was it his fault? U.S. lawsuits My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. brakes, remember? Because its flat out bull**it. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. They admitted their problem and fixed it. 01:10. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Funny how that works. I agree. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. I still own them all. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. Liberal, Conservative. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. I continue to bet my life on them. BAM. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Give me a break. The new guy sucks. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. is the manual safety a kit you add? He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. He was told to shoot two rounds. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. He points to it in the video. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. You couldnt ask questions. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Trust a P365 with your life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. Search Texas Statutes. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. That took a lot. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. It did not originally have this. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. 2. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question.

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