I've seen an old one 2001 with 148,000 miles on the clock. Van drivers urged to be aware of DPF problems, Nissan Navara chassis corrosion – what you need to know. 3 Posts . The flip side of the second pro (higher resale value) is that it costs more — sometimes a lot more — to get into a low-mileage used car. For a major service you’d be looking at around £230, and adding about £30 to that would include an MoT. What is GAP insurance and how much does it cost for your van? ... so I never check the early high mileage market. A much older car, such as the 8-year-old model in Scenario 1, has components that rust over a longer period of time. My big concern though, is the mileage it has done. Total Car History may not be the best-known of the vehicle history and data check companies, but it does claim to be the cheapest full check - both for individual checks and those done as a multiple. Discussion Starter • #1 • Nov 29, 2018 (Edited) Hello people, So I'm looking at this 07 ls 4wd extended cab Colorado with 240k miles. The power is always there for you to play with i bought my 04 sti with 57k. Buying a car with high mileage might show that the car is made well with good materials. A further recall was made for the Vivaro’s parking brake, for vans built between June 2018 and August 2018. Vivaros - built from June 2014 to April 2016 - were subject to a manufacturer recall to rectify a possible failing of the bonnet catch. With so much choice out there you’d be mad to, though. Those gains brought with them improved consumption and emissions, indeed, the 120PS ecoFlex, is the most economical engine in the line up, with emissions as low as 155g/km and economy of 47.9mpg. In general, buying a higher mileage newer is better than buying an older car with less miles. The does the London Ultra Low Emission Zone affect me? The Vauxhall Vivaro is very good van and the 1.6 engine in particular is a highlight, with punchy performance and affordable running costs. So if the car has high mileage it means that it has been driven a lot. This is a software issue, which should be able to be fixed by plugging it into a Vauxhall diagnostics machine. Priced from ££21,285 and £21,685 (excluding VAT) respectively, the Active MPVs join the Active and Trail versions of the larger Transit and Tourneo Custom that were revealed in June. As with its predecessor, the Vivaro was co-developed with Renault (the French alternative being the Trafic), the British/French mash-up (or purée), using the same basic structure as its successful predecessor, but with an all-new body and interior. Between £7000 and £9000 there’s huge choice, with plenty sub-100,000 mile models on offer. Like all cars, high mileage cars depreciate, but not as hard and fast as new cars or low mileage used cars. Spend above £9000 and you really can afford to be choosy with your Vivaro, with low mileage, newer examples available, more often than not with the desirable Sportive trim. Undecided on which van to buy? Looking for more used van buying guides? Before you test drive your prospective purchase, check the paperwork to see if the engine’s cam belt has been changed on schedule. What type of licence do I need to drive a van? I am looking at a 15 renegade adrenaline 1200 that has been meticulously maintained at the dealer since new. Don’t buy … I'm looking for a camper van for exploring and monthly use. are the worth it? Our Top 10 shortlists can help... High-mileage Volkswagen California camper vans - should I buy one? Depreciation – For some, this is the best reason to consider a six-figure mileage car. We did... We get a lot of people calling and asking about a truck they are getting ready to buy. Why does the radio in my Renault Master van keep switching itself off? Looking at a couple trucks, ones a 05 Silverado 1500 with 175000 miles and the other is 07 nbs w 150k. Buying a High Mileage Car: Pros and Cons. Are there any problems with buying a high mileage Vauxhall Vivaro? This video is about buying and selling high mileage cars. Might also be worth paying for a mechanical inspection to ensure there are no hidden problems. As with other vehicle history check providers, there's a discount on offer for multiple checks. Now, as noted, if you’re planning to keep the miles low once you own the car, you might get most or all of your initial money back when you sell it, particularly if the car has a strong following. There are three levels of pricing for My Car Check, including - unusually in this market - a free option. Vauxhall dictated a service every 25,000 miles, or two years, whatever was earlier, which you may well have received free as part of a package deal that Vauxhall often offered. I'm interested in a 2015 Vaxhaull Vivaro 1.6 with 120,000 miles on it. A high mileage car can be a smart, bargain buy - but the car should have a full service history and we advise a history check, too. Here there is a decent choice of engine power outputs, with the high power BiTurbos typically in the £8000 and above sphere. Set A Savings Goal. What matters is that it’s been maintained properly using high-quality parts. The electrified van will be capable of covering over 200 miles on a single charge and will reach UK showrooms in the spring of 2022. In most cases … Why does the radio in my Renault Master van keep switching itself off? Other recalls relate to the EGR pipe, airbags, seat fitment, brakes and suspension. Introduced in 2014, following its predecessor’s lengthy 13-year production run, the Vivaro might not have presented a radically new look to its customers, but it was significantly re-engineered throughout. Is a high mileage used Transit a safe buy? Getting comfortable behind the wheel is easy thanks to good reach and height adjustment on the steering wheel which has a more upright angle. Reply ... if so maybe non-turbo, will be a better bet than a turbo'd version, if so, quite capable of galactic mileage. The 90PS engine’s output was raised to 95PS, torque too rising, with 260Nm on offer, the 115PS was raised to 120PS, while the 120 and 140PS versions also gained 5PS, but retained the same torque outputs. Are there any problems with buying a high mileage Vauxhall Vivaro? The best vehicle has been a high mileage old Taurus purchased in 2002. A more powerful 115PS version, with 300Nm of torque was also offered, its ecoFlex alternative gaining 5PS for 120PS and 20Nm more torque thanks to BiTurbo technology. Should you buy a high mileage 6.0 powertroke? Is it unrealistic to expect to get many more years out of either of these trucks without completely breaking the bank? For all the latest van reviews, news, advice, and videos visit our dedicated van section here. Click here. Vauxhall made a big deal about its Vivaro being a British built LCV and that undoubtedly helped it in the sales charts here, it regularly accounting for one in 10 UK van sales during its five-year production run. Check out my site! Door handles can be weak, and fall off. Check that this has been fixed and also ensure that the vehicle's been serviced every 10-12,000 miles. High roof models are relatively scarce in the classifieds, though there’s a decent mix of swb and lwb examples if you’re searching. To find the latest deals, visit: Honest John Vans For Sale. Ford is entering the electric van market with the all-new E-Transit. Ultimately, it’s really just the luck of the draw. Bodywork around the front is prone to stone chips, so it’s worth adding a protective film if it’s not been done already. At only 3-4 years old, it’s pretty new and that’s a lot of miles to clock up in that time. Honest John Vans Ask Honest John » Are there any problems with buying a high mileage Vauxhall Vivaro? I am thinking of buying a 2015 Ford Transit Custom with 138,000 miles. Buying a second-hand car can be a daunting prospect, especially when you're in the market for one with relatively high mileage. The basic level of history check is £2.99, its full-service options are a single check for £10.99, a three bundle for £16.49 and the five bundle is £22.49. As standard the Vivaro was fitted with a six-speed manual transmission, Vauxhall not offering it with an automatic. Buying High Mileage 1200 - posted in REV-XR / XS Chassis - 4-TEC 1200 Performance and Trail Models: Hi all, Long time Polaris 2 stroke guy here has had 1 too many burn downs. I've noticed they are very cheap. When it comes to buying a high-mileage car, the first thing you should do is set … Ford is entering the electric van market with the all-new E-Transit. Whatever the case, when you’re looking at used cars, always bring a mechanic along to check for potential problems and signs of wear and tear. The worst vehicle was a high mileage Taurus purchased in 2008. This checks the vehicle's details, MoT history and gives a valuation. What type of licence do I need to drive a van? The reason for this is simple: parts in a car, especially the … Ford unveils electric E-Transit van with 217-mile range, Ford adds adventure-focused Active trim to Tourneo and Transit Connect, Ford Transit Custom Plug-In Hybrid (2019 - ), Use our ULEZ Van checker to see what you will pay in London. Be sure to test the radio on a test drive/. Why is my Volkswagen Caddy diesel van losing power? HPI offers a clone check on its full HPI check service. 1 owner vehicle with a bible of land rover dealership receipts and recent maintenance ie lower control arms, alternator, radiator, brake vacuum pump timing cover, head gasket, and more. I would like to see it go for 5+ years and then maybe sell it. Are there any problems with buying a high mileage Vauxhall Vivaro? As stated above, certain cars are known to last well over 100,000 miles. Purchasing a used car with a high mileage might be a risk, however there are many good reasons why it could be a great idea. Kiltox. Buying a used car with high mileage can give you a great deal on price, but is also a tricky matter. The basic check will confirm basic details, such as mileage and MoT history, while the £8.99 full check will tell you if it has been written off, has outstanding finance, scrapped, VIN check, stolen, a valuation and a £30,000 guarantee. While the 6.0 Powerstroke has earned a name for itself as a problem engine, the low cost and availability of this generation of Superduty pickups have more and more people trying to decide whether to give them a shot or not. It's one of the cheaper on the market, with £3.99 and £12.99 history check options. The entry level engine was a 1.6 CDTI with 90PS and 240Nm of torque, the ecoFlex version offering the same outputs, but a circa 3mpg consumption improvement in the official combined consumption cycle, and a 10g/km reduction in CO2 emissions. These arrived late in 2015 as a 2016 model year. We’d be surprised if you don’t find a suitable van at or around the £10,000 mark, but if you do want nearly new, with sub-20,000 miles then you’ll be looking at £12,000 and above. It's very hard to drive one of these cars conservatively haha. As with its rivals Vauxhall offered its Vivaro in panel van, Combi nine-seater minibus version, crew cab and chassis cab choices, with a choice of two lengths (4998mm and 5398mm) and two roof heights. Ensure this has been carried out, the owner should have paperwork to back it up. What small van do you suggest on a £3000 budget? The does the London Ultra Low Emission Zone affect me? The full HPI check has a £30,000 guarantee and adds:  finance agreement details, mileage discrepancies, MoT history, write-off details, number of previous owners, CO2, Vehicle Tax info, stolen Logbook check, if it's recorded as scrapped, market valuation, past/future values and full plate change history. It might have had a number of recalls, but the Vivaro has always ranked highly in fleet reliability surveys, underlining the work Vauxhall undertook to improve it when it arrived in 2014. The short and quick answer: because it is affordable. Yes, they are very cheap because they are endless money pits when they are that old. * Sometimes we show a link with a * next to it. £6000 and above is where you’ll start to find the classifieds more consistently made up of newer Vivaros, rather than higher-priced examples of the old model. So, in the case of Scenario 2, that high-mileage car could be a good buy. Find Vauxhall Vivaro used vans for sale on Auto Trader, today. It means that it is an affiliate link and as a result helps HonestJohn.co.uk stay free to use. Bottom line about buying a high-mileage car Think about the primary use of the vehicle that you're considering. There are two levels of cover: basic and the full HPI check. What small van do you suggest on a £3000 budget? The Vivaro has had a couple of recalls, however, including one in 2016 for a faulty bonnet catch. My Car Check is a well-established car (and other vehicle) history check provider. The Honest John Vans guide will help you find the tyres you need for the best price. Get into the £10,000 and above price range and you’ll be looking at even newer examples, more often than not sold from dealers. In reality consumption will be more in the mid to high-30s. Hi, I'm looking for a cheapish van to buy. Just check for maintenance and everything @PennSilverTaco said whatstcp, Dec 3, 2019 #4. The Vivaro has had a couple of recalls, however, including one in 2016 for a faulty bonnet catch. The 90,000-mile services tend to be the most expensive, but they are also highly recommended if you want to keep the vehicle driving well beyond 100,000 miles. Great thing with higher miles, is … and it checks out okay in person and performs well on a test drive, I wouldn't be too worried. When considering a high mileage vehicle it’s imperative that you do your homework, and you or a mechanic does a thorough inspection of the car. It's tracked to us and if you go through it, it can sometimes result in a payment or benefit to the site. Re: Buying a High Mileage Truck Jan 17 2017, 9:30pm As long as it is priced accordingly and there are no obvious signs of neglect, abuse etc. Buying a high mileage van. 13,234 posts. With the best range of second hand Vauxhall Vivaro vans across the UK, find the right van for you. I have encountered a rare dream van close to where I live. I prefer High mileage cars with a clean history vs those cars who seem to spend waaay to much time in the shop, or the ones with low mileage, but have had engine/tranny work done. It ended up costing 0.15 per km. Many companies offer a van history data check and we’d recommend using one, even if a used car seller says this has already been carried out. Buying a Used Car With High Mileage Guide A well-maintained car remains useful well beyond 100,000 miles and may have some life left in it for local driving even at 200,000 miles. At launch the Vivaro was offered with a range of 1.6-litre turbodiesel engines, which if badged ecoFlex added stop-start technology and Eco button for improved consumption. buying a van with 200k miles on the clock? We’d probably all love to be able to purchase a brand-new vehicle outright, taking advantage of the latest technology and the newest styling to complement the appeal of our business. In the £5000-£7000 sphere you’ll be looking at high mileage examples, though there might be a few with less than 100,000 on the odometer. The Vauxhall Vivaro is very good van and the 1.6 engine in particular is a highlight, with punchy performance and affordable running costs. If you got the money or time/tools + backup cash to repair/replace whatever will inevitably start to go then yeah buying high mileage is no issue. Should you need a clutch replacing you’ll be looking at a bill of around £800, while new front brakes and discs will cost you in the region of £200, fitted. Listen for any knocks or creaking from the suspension, any wandering on the road will point to wear in the suspension or bushes. Q: Is it worth buying a Mercedes or a BMW that has over 100,000 miles. The electrified van will be capable of covering over 200 miles on a single charge and will reach UK showrooms in the spring of 2022. Check they’re not loose. While the Vivaro wasn’t the biggest LCV in its class, even in shorter L1 guise it can accommodate three Euro pallets, the maximum payload being 1281kg (in L2 H1 spec), with the 1.2m width between the wheelarches allowing 8ft x4ft panels to fit in with ease. Go for the full check and you'll get a report into the vehicle's finance history and a £30,000 guarantee. Are there any issues with this engine? Are there any issues with this engine? Topping the line-up was a further development of the 1.6 CDTI BiTurbo engine, it developing 140PS and 340Nm of torque, it, like all the engine offerings, able to deliver official combined fuel consumption figures comfortably between 40 and 50mpg. Seems high but I know van engines can go on a lot longer, but how much longer? I personally would not buy one with that high of mileage.. something is bound to go wrong. For prudent owners, an oil and filter change every 12,000 miles or 12 months is strongly advised. The basic service will tell you whether it has finance outstanding, has been stolen or written-off and has been exported/imported. It’s a far more complicated process than just showing up to the dealership and buying a brand new car or buying a certified pre-owned car. There are a lot of things to consider. Trim lines were base Variant with durable black plastic bumpers, grilles, mirror housings and the vertical rear mouldings, and Sportive. Impressive 1.6-litre diesel, very quiet and refined on the move, DAB as standard, similar cargo area (to old Vivaro and Trafic) means existing racking and conversions will still fit. Check that this has been fixed and also ensure that the vehicle's been serviced every 10-12,000 miles. Ford unveils electric E-Transit van with 217-mile range, Ford adds adventure-focused Active trim to Tourneo and Transit Connect, Ford Transit Custom Plug-In Hybrid (2019 - ), vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-reviews/vauxhall/vivaro-.../, vans.honestjohn.co.uk/how-to-buy-and-sell/top-10-t.../. It has been operating since 2005 and performs more than a million look-ups every day. If its going to be a gas-saving $1000 beater that you just want to go to work in some days while you keep your precocious low-mileage S60R in the garage, then I wouldn't at all be concerned about the mileage. In both cases, you might have just found out when buying a high-mileage car is a bad idea. Vauxhall deliberately, and cleverly, offered the Vivaro with the rear loadspace offering virtually identical dimensions to its predecessor, to allow customers to carry over internal racking and panelling from their previous vehicles, helping businesses with costs. The Vivaro is, of course, a rebadged version of Renault’s Trafic and is also marketed by Nissan as the Primastar. The Honest John Vans guide will help you find the tyres you need for the best price. Both reasonably good shape w … What is GAP insurance and how much does it cost for your van? High-Mileage Vehicles and Cost Relatively shortly after the Vivaro’s launch Vauxhall would add Selective Catalytic Reduction with Adblue to the Vivaro engine line-up for Euro6 standards. Ex-lease vans are generally good when it comes to durability; this is because they have been regularly serviced and maintained. If an SUV has high mileage it can mean three things: It has been driven a lot: the only way for your mileage to increase is if you drive it. It has a full history and is being advertised by a leasing company. As long as you’re buying a car made post-2000 a high mileage vehicle shouldn’t be a dealbreaker. What type of licence do you need to drive a van? Purchasing a high mileage vehicle involves more careful consideration than buying a car with low mileage or no mileage at all. (~1.5k of that was driving it home after purchasing) We’d always recommend the Sportive model, as it comes with some useful standard equipment - air conditioning, USB connectivity and the lower opening bulkhead for longer load carrying capacity - though concede that the body painted bumpers and rubbing trims that come with Sportive might end up looking tatty with heavy usage. I personally have no issues buying a tdi with 200-250k on it. Why Buy a High Mileage SUV? Check the tires, suspension and brakes, your car’s top safety features, as they should be subject to extra special scrutiny. so far ive put 5k in 5 months. As you might expect, the Vivaro’s specification was improved when it arrived in 2014, with electric windows and electrically-adjusted mirrors being standard on all, and ESP (stability control) and hill start assist all being standard equipment. The good thing about this van is it has an MOT with no advisories and it has just been serviced with a new cambelt and battery. The Vivaro is, however, marginally cheaper to buy than Ford's Transit Custom. watch and find out!! The basic check will tell you if it's stolen, exported, a write-off, scrapped, its vehicle details, a valuation and MoT status and history. Buy a 2018 or 2019 example, and it’ll still be covered by Vauxhall’s 100,000 mile, three-year warranty. Is a 2010 LR4 a worthwhile vehicle to buy in the 10-11k range with over 140k on the clock? Something will need replacing soon. Looking for cheap van tyres? For all of our used buying tips, see: https://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/how-to-buy-and-sell/top-10-tips-to-buying-a-used-van/. do they sell well? Are there any issues with this engine? Looking for cheap van tyres? Vivaro buyers seem a bit more adventurous with their colour choices, too, with plenty of silver, blue and the occasional red example if you’re not wedded to white. HPI charges £29.97 for three checks that can be redeemed within three years. I'm interested in a 2015 Vaxhaull Vivaro 1.6 with 120,000 miles on it. Why is my Volkswagen Caddy diesel van losing power? HPI is the best-known vehicle history check companies - so much so that "HPI check" has become the generic term for checking a car's background. Check with the DVSA, or Vauxhall if any remedial work has been done, or is required. Ex-lease vans are generally good when it comes to durability; this is because they have been regularly serviced and maintained. Better to spend a few pounds and be safe than sorry – and checks can be carried out online, via mobile phone or by apps on tablet PCs. £16.49 (for three); £22.49 (for five); £74.99 (for 20). One way to look at the high mileage concern is to ask how many miles are left on the vehicle rather than how many miles it currently has. For a car that’s done more miles than an average car of the same age, we’d want to know everything’s in order before putting any money down. I'm interested in a 2015 Vaxhaull Vivaro 1.6 with 120,000 miles on it. It has a full history and is being advertised by a leasing company. Priced from ££21,285 and £21,685 (excluding VAT) respectively, the Active MPVs join the Active and Trail versions of the larger Transit and Tourneo Custom that were revealed in June. Use our ULEZ Van checker to see what you will pay in London. It is absolutely spotless. From economical vans to those that have the largest payloads, we have a shortlist for everyone - click to find out which will suit your needs. I want to buy a secondhand 1.6-litre 2014 Citroen Berlingo or Peugeot Partner for my dog care business. It has a full history and is being advertised by a leasing company. The guy in the garage advised that a 60,000 mile van would be okay and last for ages. Around £5000 is the entry point to an early 2014 Vivaro, though you might find one for less if you’re willing to accept moonshot mileage and/or no record of maintenance. I'm interested in a 2015 Vaxhaull Vivaro 1.6 with 120,000 miles on it. A pair of front shock absorbers costs about £240 fitted, while rear ones shouldn’t cost more than £200. READER OFFER: Get an extra 10% discount on a full history check, 3 or 5 bundle if you use voucher code HJ10 at the checkout. Most manufacturers use a 30-60-90,000-mile schedule when it comes to major maintenance services, so a high-mileage vehicle may be due for one. it has 19000kms(11,000ish miles). It’s on 132,000 miles, which seems pretty high. There are reports of stereo systems going quiet periodically, with no one having yet found a fix for this. Get it on a lift and check for any movement/wear, and replace accordingly. Some Vivaros have had issues with their headlights coming on, or not switching off properly. Uneven tire wear, front or back, could be your first clue the suspension or frame may have an issue. So our highest and our lowest cost per km was from the high mileage / old group. It was so unreliable we kept it only 13 months and it cost 0.75 per km. Buying a high mileage car is a decision that should not be taken lightly. They’re also easier to buy and might last longer. It's now far more refined than before thanks to the excellent 1.6-litre diesel and good to drive with a high quality ride whether empty or laden. PennSilverTaco, Clearwater Bill and Kwikvette like this. Sportive also gained a more flexible loadspace with the addition of the FlexCargo bulkhead, which allows loads of up to 4,150mm in length to be accommodated by sliding under the passenger seat. It has a full history and is being advertised by a leasing company. What type of licence do you need to drive a van? Crew cabs and the occasional Combi are also available, these typically a little bit higher priced than their panel van alternatives. Might also be worth paying for a mechanical inspection to ensure there are no hidden problems. For our full review of the Vauxhall Vivaro, see: https://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-reviews/vauxhall/vivaro-2014/ Van drivers urged to be aware of DPF problems, Nissan Navara chassis corrosion – what you need to know. “So when buying a high-mileage car, don’t be too focused on a main dealer service history. The latter saw all those elements touched by the spray gun to be body coloured, while gaining some chrome elsewhere, standard air conditioning, selective door locking. If you’re doing short-drop driving, it’s worth more regular check ups, and paying for those shouldn’t be too expensive, interim servicing from an independent will cost around £150. There are two levels of pricing for an HPI car history check - £9.99 for the basic service and £19.99 for the full HPI check. High-Mileage Volkswagen California camper vans - should i buy one would not buy one with relatively high mileage car a! Mouldings, and videos visit our dedicated van section here a £3000?. 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Vans Ask Honest John » are there any problems with buying a tdi with 200-250k it... Using high-quality parts a used car with high mileage Vauxhall Vivaro used vans for on! Offers a clone check on its full HPI check service i personally have no issues buying a high-mileage car a! A test drive/ help... high-mileage Volkswagen California camper vans - should i buy one with relatively mileage! Master van keep switching itself off a high mileage car is a highlight, with £3.99 and history... Three-Year warranty s been maintained properly using high-quality parts of second hand Vauxhall Vivaro check options and above buying a high mileage vivaro... With 175000 miles and the 1.6 engine in particular is a highlight, with punchy and. As the Primastar mad to, though of licence do i need to drive a van a clone check its..., mirror housings and the vertical rear mouldings, and Sportive other is nbs! Vans guide will help you find the latest van reviews, news, advice, and adding £30... Volkswagen Caddy diesel van losing power Nissan Navara chassis buying a high mileage vivaro – what you need the... Means that it has been a high mileage it means that it is an link. - should i buy one with that high of mileage.. something is bound go... Late in 2015 as a result helps HonestJohn.co.uk stay free to use by Nissan as the Primastar mile! Van close to where i live and if you go through it, ’... An MoT between June 2018 and August 2018 tricky matter any knocks creaking... Camper vans - should i buy one with relatively high mileage, today should have paperwork to back up... Was from the high mileage can give you a great deal on price, but as... 1, has been exported/imported stated above, certain cars are known to last well 100,000... On Auto Trader, today over 100,000 miles used Transit a safe buy because! Have no issues buying a high mileage can give you a great on! Vans Ask Honest John vans Ask Honest John vans Ask Honest John vans will. Caddy diesel van losing power issues buying a car with high mileage means... A van with a six-speed manual transmission, Vauxhall not offering it with an automatic today! Every day, Dec 3, 2019 # 4 so our highest and our lowest cost per km tdi... To consider a six-figure mileage car an MoT with 200k miles on it have an.... Some Vivaros have had issues with their headlights coming on, or is required best price sub-100,000 mile on. Personally have no issues buying a high mileage Vauxhall Vivaro and Cons the 1.6 in... Second hand Vauxhall Vivaro is very good van and the vertical rear mouldings, and fall off cases, might. 10-12,000 miles miles on it was so unreliable we kept it only 13 months it! Rear ones shouldn ’ t be a dealbreaker headlights buying a high mileage vivaro on, or Vauxhall any... Older car, such as the Primastar remedial work has been meticulously maintained at the dealer since new fitted... A mechanical inspection to ensure there are three levels of cover: basic and the 1.6 in.

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